I live in Utah, which is about as far from the seperation of church and state as Ethiopia is from becoming a world power. There is so much state sanctioned bigotry and intolerance in my state that I know is directly caused by the unchecked power of the dominant religion. (If anyone doesn’t know, the LDS church controls just about everything in this state.)

I am not trying to bash Mormons, I have many friends who are Mormon, and I don’t hate the people who practice this religion. It is the doctrine itself that I have a problem with and the fact that for those of us who live here and are not LDS, the way the government is feels extremely oppressive.

So many people who live here are indoctrinated with the fact that to be LDS is to be chosen by God, and that non-LDS people (they actually call us Gentiles) are below them. I have heard that this is not true of Mormons in other states, so I guess it must have something to do with being close to their Zion.

It was refreshing to see that there are “religious wackos” everywhere and they are just as successfully ruining the lives of people around them as I feel the LDS church-run government of the state of Utah is doing here.

You know, I think it’s basis is on pure prejudice, to try and get to the real core. It may be about one “religion” or another so we could call it being fanaticism, but really these people have a problem with anyone being different than they are. Anything can be twisted, and fanatics come in all flavours, the religious and non-religious.

Above, MWARDEN said:
“The thing that really gets me is that there doesn’t seem to be any members of the religious majority in this country who a very much in support of separation of church and state. Why is that?”

To answer him, they are there, but they are not a majority because of the large amount of indoctrination that goes on in so many places (i.e:to think independantly is evil). I’d be one of those people. Often we are the “heretics”, so we are ignored, often “cast out” ourselves, out of churches, etc.

Like the “prayer protesting” going on outside government official’s offices in Alberta, Canada. It’s just crap, and makes no sense at all. But when I mention that to anyone outside my own family that is “Christian” - woah, stand back.

I feel so deeply for the suffering of this boy, and of his parents. This was a crime, pure and simple, and it’s criminal that no one wants to do anything about it.

…And apologies in advance for being OT, but I haven’t forgotten you Matt.

A lot of people don’t seem to care about things that have no direct affect on them. Another example would be males fighting for equal rights for women.

Probably the same reason you don’t see many middle-/upper-class people protecting labor rights.

I’m kinda lost, do you mean that these people aren’t saying anything because they see nothing wrong, or that they are afraid to speak up??

With regards to the content of Dan’s post, I’m still in shock. It just kills me how these non-denominational so called “bible-based” churchs have the ability to completely transform a person–and not always for the better.

Granted, for some people, these structures are very very helpful. Some people need the guidance because they are just plain messed up. Any postive influence is better than nothing.

In the article the author speaks about a person who was seemingly normal and kept their children clean and dressed nicely, but after exposure to this church they parent started ignoring personal hygene and the cleanlyness of their children. That’s not really suprising, most churches of this type tend to preach a philosophy of “disregard your material life for your spiritual life” Churches of this type also seem to endorse a lifestyle the discourages personal responsibility for the actions of the believer. Generally speaking, the practitioner can pretty much exhibit any sort of behavior, and as long as they repent at church, their slate is wiped clean. I’m serious about this. Cheating on your significant other? No problem, just profess complete and utter guilt and ask for forgiveness for your weak human sinful condition. BAM! Your slate is clean.

Er. yeah. That’s nice. Love using that religious “get out of jail free” card.

But, like i said, for most people, they need some sort of structure otherwise they cannot survive in society. At least they’ve got something that keeps them off of the street and out of the crack houses….

w3rd

Answer: there is no difference, other than quantity of death. And, frankly, I think we could all drudge up some other examples of Christianity-driven mass killings that would even the score.

The thing that really gets me is that there doesn’t seem to be any members of the religious majority in this country who a very much in support of separation of church and state. Why is that?

What I mean is: I’m no gun nut. I probably will never own a gun. However, I would be one of the first people out there marching against a repeal of the second amendment.

What I mean is: I’ll probably never have the opportunity to incriminate myself in a courtroom, but I’d be raising hell if someone suggested we repeal the 5th amendment.

Where the hell are the people in the religious majority who are fighting for separation of church and state? Do your religious beliefs cloud your judgment so much that you can’t see why this separation exists? Where the hell are the Christians in Alabama who ought to be writing letters to this Alabama cowboy judge?

Probably the same reason you don’t see many middle-/upper-class people protecting labor rights.