The other thing I was worried about is that this health care we will be getting, I would assume, will not be of the quality or caliber that we are accustomed too. For instance, if we were to get in a car accident and needed reconstructive surgery on our face but it wasn’t neccesary to live – I would imagine that the state could not afford it and would not do it. That is just not acceptable. Currently I know that those people who take the free health care would not and do not get reconstructive surgery that isnt neccesary to live. And then there is the quality of that surgery to consider, even we were able to get it.

So if we had to pay extra money into the system to get this better coverage, how much more expensive would the total cost (increase in taxes and extra fee for expected coverage) for decent health care be? I know that we would be paying also for the health care of our retired loved ones as well as the disabled and children who need health care, but I would like to be sure that I would still be able to afford the healthcare that I expect, which is full and complete health care (which of course is currently insanely expensive as it is). But I would almost assume that the same coverage would cost more that it does today, because there would be so many more people to pay for, even with negotiated lower costs per person.

I just want to know if we will have healthcare worth having or if we will all just get garbage and then no one is really covered but it is still costing a boat load for tax payers.

I dont think the idea should be canned at all, I again would just like to know how well thought out this plan really is.

Free health care for all is GREAT – BUT, there are all different types and qualities of health care and free health care for all honestly doesnt sound like quality health care for any.

But I could be, and hope that I am, wrong about that.

Sidenote:
Also, pharmacertical and insurance companies have quite a bit of expendible cash to throw at our qovernment officials and I believe extra checks and balances (more open records rights for the public, watch dog commitees, ect.) to be sure that there is no corruption. There is alot of money to be had in the health care industry and its extraordiarily easy to hide and cover corruption in such a big and complex system. So much so that the health care system almost invites corruption, one of the reasons why big pharma and insurace companies have so much money to begin today.

PS
I really appreciate the educated and civilized discussion we have all been having.

I think it’s important to realize that slackers who can work and don’t want to already get free health care. They go to the ER and they don’t pay the bill. The rest of us do. This happens whether these people are in Wisconsin or some other state. These are probably not the type of people who are going to take the initiative to move to Wisconsin for something they already get where they are. By everyone’s admission, they’re not exactly self-starters. If we start giving away free cash TVs or cars, maybe, but the people you’re talking about probably aren’t all that in to having the best health care possible. I believe their desires are much more base than that.

I understand your point but I don’t think that the entire idea can be sunk on “what if’s” like this. There are always people who will game the system, and the system will always have rules that some of us don’t agree with. That doesn’t mean the overriding goal of something like this is wrong, it means that its implementation will not be perfect – just like every single public or private policy decision ever made. If we get hung up on that, everything will stop moving forward.

I agree that (both) parties have their issues, so I guess we’re all in agreement that we need lobbying reform NOW. Group hug!

PARTIES ARE THE PROBLEM

I have beat this drum forever – even on this blog. Nice to see somebody else has a sense of history. :)

It is because frankly the people we elect dont know the meaning of public servant, only the color green.

Electing someone that is not affiliated with a party and who actually CARES about ALL of the citizens – not just those affiliated with his or her party – is the only way to save our state and nation.

PARTIES ARE THE PROBLEM

The one and only issue I’ve ever brought up about the current universal healthcare plan has still not been responded to by any democrat on this forum and I’ve said it in about 5 seperate posts in a row here.

What about the people who have no interest in working at all, but are perfectly capable of work, who will flock to our state just like they did when we opened the gates of welfare??

same facts as before:

60% of African American males in Milwaukee are currently unemployed while Milwaukee has a labor shortage – (mainly because of migrating to our state of people that do not want to work in the first place during the height of welfare and the broken families it forced – a male was not allowed in the household in order to recieve welfare) racism is a factor but how far can even a democrat really take that argument especially with affirmative action? Not as far as 60%.

Costs will skyrocket for people that actually work and pay taxes, this states economy will falter as more people, of every creed, who do not want to work rush into this state for free government food stamps and health care.

How many people will migrate here that already actually work and can already afford health care? Not many, which means that no one who can pay some taxes to help support this program with come in to offset those who come here with no intention of finding a job.

The way that the universal healthcare plan is setup it will encourage the wrong types of behavior.

Do you think a simple provision stating that must have a job, only if you are capable of working, in order to gain free healthcare? Perhaps that the adults of families can have free health care as long as at least one parent is working? Children, the disabled (mentally or physically), and retired (of a certain age), and students (for a limited number of years) will have free health care no matter what.

Let me reiterate that I am NOT a republican or democrat, I consider every issue and candidate running for office individually. This sounds fair to me and sounds like it will encourage positive behavior for every citizen in this state.

For the DEMOCRATS:
All those who work, and those who are unable to work, recieve free health care strengthening the morale of the state.

For the REPUBLICANS:
All those who are able to work must in order to recieve health care, strengthening the economy and encouraging people to contribute to the society like we are contributing to them with free healthcare.

Can anyone respond to this, please?

I am open for suggestion, and if I am wrong, I would like to know how.

I already know that republicans wont like much but at least its a compromise, it encourages positive behavior, and its the right thing to do.

I am a student and frankly this state has rushed into so many things lately that this state really is going down hill right now, and I dont want to but I feel I must move out of this state because there is not way to stop the sinking and I dont want to go down with the ship for decisions I had no control over. Even when I elect the best candidate, they still fall SADLY short of the leadership this state needs.

Im not a democrat or a republican and frankly I feel that I’m witnessing what George Washington predicted when this country was formed:

“Parties will be the downfall this nation”

So far it becomes more and more true with every election that happens.

It’s impossible to get into politics without being in a party and in someones pocket, and theres not ethical pocket to be in.

Both parties are more than guilty and frankly, it disgusts me.

And that’s exactly the kind of core belief I’m referring to about people like yourself believing that “government is bad”.

Social security has it’s issues, but would you really say it’s caused more trouble than it’s “worth” over the past 70 years?? You seem to forget that it was created for a reason, and that was the moral responsibility we have as a society to make sure that when people don’t have jobs anymore or are past their prime, they’re not kicked to the side of the curb and left for dead.

It’s ridiculous to say that whatever issues there are with a program are cause enough to end it or to preemptivly kill it off. I personally think that giving hundreds of thousands of kids great health care, or giving hundreds of thousands of seniors great health care, or giving the untold numbers who can’t afford *any* health care access to a system they’ve been shut out of for most of their lives is not only a wonderful and compassionate idea that’s time is past, but is the moral responsibility that’s ours to undertake.

I know how you feel about things like this, but I want you to know how I feel to. I can’t put a price on keeping someone past their working prime off the streets anymore than I can put a price on seeing someone less fortunate suffer needlessly.